The Knaphillian

A neighbour has just informed me that Sainsbury's have submitted a revised application for the Cliftons site:

PLAN/2011/0429 | Variation of condition 7 of planning permission PLAN/2010/0085 to allow the opening of the premises to customers only between the hours of 7.00am to 10.00pm Mondays to Saturdays and 8.00am to 10.00pm on Sundays and Bank Holidays. There shall be no deliveries outside the hours of 8.00am to 8.00pm on Mondays to Saturdays and 12.00am to 4.00pm on Sundays and Bank Holidays. | 15 High Street Knaphill Woking GU21 2QA

So take an hour off the proposed closing time Monday to Saturday and the 450+ objections from local residents are disregarded!  WE HAVE TO MAKE YOUR OBJECTIONS AGAIN!!   LINK

I quote from a WBC planning officer:  "Should a new planning application be received to vary the hours of opening condition a fresh public consultation exercise would be undertaken as part of the new application and residents would need to write to us to lodge an objection. Those objections received to the withdrawn application will not be transferred to the new application."

In reaction to the original post on this thread from Jon_H which we have adapted on our Home Page : please see the communique from OUR councillor Melanie Whitehand (thanks Melanie for your swift response!)

Hello, Thanks for this,

I have registered my wish to have this application 'called in' for debate by the Planning Committee and strongly advise all to generate their objections again.

I do feel that if we can continue to object to every adjustment that is proposed for this application the message may get through to the Clifton family of just how much the residents of Knaphill feel betrayed by this desire to make money at the high cost to local residents way of life.

The people on Fosters Lane who live next door to the proposed development now have a blight on their house and will never be able to realise the true value of that property because of this action.

If you could place an item on the Knaphillian urging residents to write in against the application, that would be great.,

I hope that if the pressure is kept up to continue in objecting to any trading hours on the site, Sainsbury's may well give up, but it is only a hope.

Objections need to be submitted a.s.a.p. that would really help..

Thanks, Melanie

Just a quick note - if you do a search in the WBC plannig portal this doesn't come up! Only a renewal from 1999 which is a rubbish search system.

Anyway, copy and paste the above reference as your search item on the plannig portal to make your objections. Again.

http://caps.woking.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=neighbourComments&keyVal=LKZHNKRU39000

As if we needed another reason for not having another convenience store - the Focus in Woking is going to be an Asda after it closes... maybe something to note in objections?

lucky george stephenson didnt want to build his test track in knaphill for his new steam engine cos we would still be still in the stone age with all you lot objecting to everything.dont see anyone objecting to the new dry cleaners moving into the village.bet the ones next to the post office arnt to chuffed about that news.with sainsburys main store extension and shop in village brings jobs jobs jobs people and no i dont work for them lets atract more people into knaphill and try and get these shops filled up with something other than burgers.

Quite how you manage to liken Sainsburys attempts to totally monopolise our village shopping to anything entrepreneurial is beyond me.  If I recall you also think building on all our gren space is a good idea, so I guess this comment is no great surprise.  Some of us value our village and its history, think that one of the oldest local brick built buildings in the village should stay, and that the owners and Sainsbury's desire to make more money should not override the concerns and day to day life of those who live in the immediate vicinty.

oh well k.f.c.here we come.

The Cliftons site has permission for development in Planning use Class A1 (Retail) on the ground floor. Takeaways, such as KFC are Class A5 so a takeaway would not be permitted.

The main problem arises from the wide nature of uses within the A1 class. From supermarkets to furniture shops to funeral directors. Some A1 uses have the potential to have a greater adverse impact on the residential amenity of neighbouring properties. This is certainly the case with a large convenience store operation - by virtue of the extended opening hours and intensive servicing requirements. At the moment the existing conditions are not compatible with the operation of a convenience store. Hence the current application to vary hours times.

The extended hours are required for one purpose only - the commercial advantage of Sainsburys and the financial interests of the Clifton family. How can this possibly outweigh the signficiant harm that would be brought to the residents in the vicinity of the site?

It is blindingly obvious that a convenience store operation at this site will have a significant adverse impact on existing dwellings that immediately adjoin it. It is clearly not progress that I and nearly 500 others are objecting to - it is the nature of such "progress". I wonder how you would feel if your next door neighbour sold out to a retailing giant so that they could create a convenience store. Still "progress"......?

278 objections recorded on WBC site so far. But what's the point if Sainsburys are allowed to keep resubmitting new applications with minor changes and ignoring public opinion?

Few of us would claim to be thoroughly au fait with the machinations brought about by local councils and applicants in situations like this.

It is likely that Sainsburys are prepared to wait as long as it takes whilst relying on local opposition to gradually subside. When I looked just now, the number of registered objections stood at 325. A healthy number, but not quite as healthy as last time. If the revised application is declined on this occasion then WBC/Sainsburys will be looking for even fewer objections two or three months down the line when they re-submit for permission. This will re-occur until such a time as the local level of apathy is seen as a green light for the whole scheme to be stamped, ‘PASS’.

Some of those who objected first time around have missed the opportunity to keep the pressure up. Indeed, I know of one persons’ objection (that was submitted before the deadline) that does not feature amongst the 325. Odd ?

This forum and, dare I say, the KRA are just two of the tools at our disposal to rally continued support on this issue if there is a next time. Increased opposition will be required, not a fall in registered objections.

Those in support of the re-development need to be more vociferous too. In March I counted just two or three. This time . . . nothing.

Come on, fight your corner and list your valid reasons why this is a good idea.

stormof87 at May 29, 2011 at 2:03 AM

lucky george stephenson didnt want to build his test track in knaphill for his new steam engine cos we would still be still in the stone age with all you lot objecting to everything.dont see anyone objecting to the new dry cleaners moving into the village.bet the ones next to the post office arnt to chuffed about that news.with sainsburys main store extension and shop in village brings jobs jobs jobs people and no i dont work for them lets atract more people into knaphill and try and get these shops filled up with something other than burgers.

I'm all for drawing business to Knaphill but it needs to be the kind of business that is going to maintain Knaphill as a village and not turn it into a supermarket highway.

Sainsbury's has a full size supermarket not a 1/4 mile from the village centre, having another so close is going to increase traffic problems that the village already suffers from and will also increase the amount of late night shoppers and others that hang around the streets.

The more commercialised and with late night hours a place becomes the more unsociable it becomes drawing other, even less sociable types of business. 

Knaphill is a village and most of us wishe it to remain so and do not wish to be a one stop supermarket centre on the way into Woking.

Come on people, the less you object the more people like Sainsbury's and Woking Council will take our village away.

Object, don't give in.  If we keep objecting every time they submit a new change they will eventually give up but we have to be strong and keep objecting.

They know the game, they've played it before in countless other places around the country.  It's a waiting game for them and they have the money to wait.

All you have to do is log onto the council's website to object, it's hardly hard work.

I'm prepared to protest with banners outside their doors if that's what it takes.

Let's all get together and find other, more suitable businesses to move into the village and take over some of the empty buildings before the council lets anyone build any new ones.  We could make this a village to compete with Horsell if we only got off our butts and made an effort.

With respect, I think you're living in cloud cuckoo land.  Small, independent retailers have been moving out of Knaphill high street because they already can't compete with the major chains.  Its unlikely that a new business will move in as they are already on a losing streak.  And why try to compare Knaphill  to Horsell?  Have you been there recently.  More takeaways and restaurants than you can shake a stick at - oh, just like what Knaphill has turned into already.  Ultimately, isn't it better to have any jobs, rather than no jobs.  You can bleet all you like about how small independents contribute more to the local economy, but I fail to see where - any profits they make go to line their own pockets, just like any major retailer.  They don't contribute more to the local economy, and probably offer less as no doubt wages will be lower, no company discount scheme for staff, fewer job opportunities and progression prospects, etc etc.  And shall we bring out the old yarn about quality of service and advice and "customer service" available from independents.  Well, no doubt will all the time on their hands because they have no customers (except non-savvy ones), they can learn the inside and out of their business, but most people I know don't really want or need these "customer services".   People just need to wake up to the reality that we've moved on from the 1950s and 1960s.  No doubt in years to come it will all shift again as more and more people move to buying off the internet, and Sainsbury superstore in Brookwood (whoops, I mean Knaphill), will just become a warehouse with delivery vans being despatched from to deliver everyones shopping that's been ordered by the fridge.  But hey, that's progress - unfortunately not a lot of people seem to know what that word means and if they had their way, will have us all living in a museum.  They'll be advocating we give up cars soon, and go to work on a horse and cart or even that new fangled thing - a bike.  Heavin forbid.

MahargH at June 20, 2011 at 6:34 PM

With respect, I think you're living in cloud cuckoo land.  Small, independent retailers have been moving out of Knaphill high street because they already can't compete with the major chains.  Its unlikely that a new business will move in as they are already on a losing streak.  And why try to compare Knaphill  to Horsell?  Have you been there recently.  More takeaways and restaurants than you can shake a stick at - oh, just like what Knaphill has turned into already.  Ultimately, isn't it better to have any jobs, rather than no jobs.  You can bleet all you like about how small independents contribute more to the local economy, but I fail to see where - any profits they make go to line their own pockets, just like any major retailer.  They don't contribute more to the local economy, and probably offer less as no doubt wages will be lower, no company discount scheme for staff, fewer job opportunities and progression prospects, etc etc.  And shall we bring out the old yarn about quality of service and advice and "customer service" available from independents.  Well, no doubt will all the time on their hands because they have no customers (except non-savvy ones), they can learn the inside and out of their business, but most people I know don't really want or need these "customer services".   People just need to wake up to the reality that we've moved on from the 1950s and 1960s.  No doubt in years to come it will all shift again as more and more people move to buying off the internet, and Sainsbury superstore in Brookwood (whoops, I mean Knaphill), will just become a warehouse with delivery vans being despatched from to deliver everyones shopping that's been ordered by the fridge.  But hey, that's progress - unfortunately not a lot of people seem to know what that word means and if they had their way, will have us all living in a museum.  They'll be advocating we give up cars soon, and go to work on a horse and cart or even that new fangled thing - a bike.  Heavin forbid.

So you think there is no demand for retail space in the village but you are in favour of building more to accomodate another Sainsburys?  This is clearly likely to impact the trade at the Co-op (located conveniently next to a suitable car park), Knaphill Food & wine and the bakers at the very least.  So we build a new retail unit and empty some of the others?  Great result that.

Lets be clear here - the application to build should never have bee approved in the first place and this is our only opportunity to stop it being completed.  Once Sainsbury's have the hours they want the lease will be signed and the Cliftons will be able to either sell to a developer or get the funds they need to build.

Knaphill is getting screwed over again here.  There is no way on earth this building would have been approved in Horsell, or West Byfleet, or any of the other better off centres in the borough.  We need to stand up and make ourselves heard.

I will post details of when the planning officers reoprt is published and when this application is to be heard by the planning committee.  Hopefully we can get a decent number of people down there to let their feelings be known in public.

You must have a big soapbox to be heard from Goldsworth Park, Jon_H.  Perhaps leave objections about developments in Knaphill to people who live in Knaphill and not those who live on the periphery.  Or are you a flying NIMBY?

What's wrong with the Co-Op having a bit of competition?  Might bring their prices down.  Co-op just goes to prove that there is a price for convenience.  And yes, there is a demand for retail space in Knaphill, but only by those who can make it work.

flying nimby brilliant l.m.a.o. i have to agree with mr mahargh jon.if i lived in goldswort park i wouldnt give a toss what was going down in knaphill.

I live about as close to the centre of Knaphill as you can get without being on top of shop, so I will continue to make my views heard thanks.

I am not against this new store, I just don’t understand why another Sainsbury’s so close to their other store.  The co-op could do with some competition, I don’t recall a time when I have not had to wait in a queue for at least 5 minutes because they don’t employ enough staff to serve customers. I will still use independent retailers if I feel they offer good value for money and excellent service. The bakers and the pet shop are good examples of the types of business that will survive as they are customer focused.  At the end of the day residents have a choice,  if so many locals are against the shop and don’t use it,  it will surely fail,  if the store offers something that others don’t it will succeed.